Vandalism in case I and the admins said no but you did it anyway. And this wouldn't happen anyway. Rest assured, Groundraiser.

Grendelraiser...

The community isn't only made up of "skilled" bot writers like you. There are also academics, teachers, educational inspectors, poets and professional translator like myself. It's not only our opinions that differ but even the scientific theories on whichbwe based our opinions. The view that each dialect is a language on its own is scientific although i dont agree with it (and i am not the only one) as far as kabyle is concerned when we compare it to Shawi and Chenoua, the voew that all Amazigh dialects form a single language (like Arabic doalects that are considered a single language) is not less scoentific.

Besides I have already said that the Amazigh academy is onnthe way and Berber will have its own ISO code that would represent all the dialects. Its a matter of views. Neither of us is totally wrong and neither of us is totally right either. So you shouldnt just come up and "enforce" your interpretation of the NATO chart on other people. Sorry, this onlh happens in Hollywood movies.

Grindrazor...

You're waisting your time. The community works differently. I have put forth my linguistic arguments that were taken into consideration in 2012. Don't be overzealous. Calm down and come down to earth. Snap back to reality. Things don't and can't just work the way you would like to work. The world isn't under your control.

@trang @alan_f

I object and I requesr that you intervene to immediately stop this. This is a community of volunteers. Six years of hard work from a volunteer who has always strived to enrich Tatoeba shouldn't be blown into the air just like that. We respect each other as friends more than anything else and definitely not just as mere colleagues or anonymois collaborators.

Grindizer's sudden intrusion looks more like a threat to vandalize and pillage my corpus instead of helping in any way to solve the issus here. He needs to be stopped.

Sorry Groundraiser... I dont think its gonna be as easy as that. Im not in your neighborhood. We are on Tatoeba here. Thingz here work like a civilized Kabyle village people talk and solve their problems through talking.

@cueyayotl

You could notice that they have been harassing, attacking, and insulting me both here and on Facebook (I will send the Tatoeba team all the screenshots of their endless enraged attacks against me, including the threat of "lynching" me in public - I shall also take the appropriate legal proceedings to teach that super zealous extremist a good lesson).

This said, I would also like to tell you that the flag represents a racist separatist movement that's full of rage and hatred towards anyone who dares oppose their views, no matter how polite they are.

You are Mexican yourself and, in addition to that, you're also an descendant of the Aztecs, and the speaker of Nahuatl, a language that's socio-linguistically quite similar to ours. A continuum of 27 different dialects under the umbrella term of "language", some of which are mutually intelligible with others, while there is no obvious mutual intelligibility between others. It's all natural, all normal. It depends on which place you are and what language you speak. It also depends on the linguist describing the dialects. We're blessed to have you here as a linguist as well, and you understand the issue.

By the way, I love your suggestion of merging the search results while keeping the corpora separate. This is a good technical solution.

As for the flag: You must have noticed that there is not just me that opposes its use here. There are other contributors who openly expressed their opposition to the use of this flag here and have even left the Kabyle team just because of the flag. In fact, this will continue to happen in the future and neither me nor any other Kabyle who opposes the extremist political views of this movement (that called for taking up arms against the Algerian nation) to represent our Kabyle culture and Amazigh dialect.

Although we are contributing in the name of the Berber (Amazigh) language, we are also Kabyles and we unquestionably have a say about our cultural symbols. I will provide you with all the information you need to know about this dangerous political organization and how it's not at all convenient to represent the Kabyle Amazigh dialect with this flag.

@Ubezwi1

Cikkegh maci d takti yelhan imi ay la tettekkayed ddaw tekbabt n umussu-a asertan. Amghiwan (communauté) n kra n temnad't d imdanen, d timetti. Ur cikkegh ara yeqwem ad ten-rren akk gher ddaw tecd'ad't n yiwen n umussu ay yellan kan d amussu asertan gar wiyad'. Ur cikkegh ara dakken yeqwem ad d-ngenses (representer) wid yessawalen talmanit s tekbabt n ukabar-nni ay yeghlin deg 1945 akken ay llan bghan ayt ukabar-nni. S waya, bghighbad k-ttregh ma tqebled ad tili tekbabt n teqbaylit d takbabt n umussu-a amez'yan ur yes3in ara tisellat (reputation) yelhan.

Ddu gher tefyar-nnek, sit ghef tekbabt n yal tafyirt, ad ak-d-yeffegh wumugh n tutlayin. Fren Berber (tamazight), dgha ad tbeddel tekbabt-nni.

Djaff,

R'ju. Ur teh'wajed ara ad asent-talsed. Nezmer ad asen-nbeddel takbabt i tefyar-nni. Afud igerrzen deg tmerniwt n tefyar timaynutin.

Taqbaylit maci d amussi asertan amz'erbed'd'u. Taqbaylit d ayla n wakk Iqbayliyen, ula d wid ur yettekkan ara deg umussu-a. Ur ssednabet ara medden ma ugin ad ttekkin deg umussu-nwen yernu ur ten-tth'ettimet ara.

It's such a pleasure having you back. I hope Tatoeba would also benefit from your knowledge of Amazigh/Kabyle linguistics and your constant and meticulous concern for a work of quality. Good luck and all the best to you!

Ihi kra n wasz ad fernen (kra n) ijenyur'en n tsenselkimt takbabt n Yinaziyen d azamul n wakk wid yessawalen talmanit ama deg Lalman, ama deg Tutrict, ama anda nid'en. Kran uijenyur'ren n Microsoft ad fernen dagh takbabt n Da3ec i tutlayt ta3r'abt ay ssawalen ula d imasih'iyen ed yici3iyen ed yinselmen ur yeddin ara ed Da3ec. Tgerrez ma yella d ijenyur'en n tsenselkimt ara alsen tabadut i s kra n wayen yellan deg umad'al. Takbabt-a n umussu amz'erbed'd'u yernu ufan-d aya d ssebba akken ad semlen (promouvoir) amussu-a, a Mqidec, a gma. A faqu :-)

You dont need to have your account deleted. You can change your profile tje way you want. Put Berber as your strongest language then write Kabyle underneath it. Wait until the flag is changed then you could join the Kabyle team again although i would love to have you on my team :-) I also need your expertise ;-) I have millions of questionz related to some grammatical issues and spelling.

@Mqidec @djafmes

Yebbuh'ra wul-inu mi ghrigh ayen ay d-turam a aytmaten. Muh'end Ayt Belqasem ula d nekk ssnegh-t deg Internet yernu ssnen-t kra seg yimeddukal-inu uz'wiren deg tmazight. Nella nettd'afar s lqerb ayen ay yetteg, ye3jeb-agh. Yella dagh yesrusuy-d tuttriwin deg Facebook yernu ula ma ur stufagh ara deg 3 n yiseggasen-a ineggura, lligh 3errd'egh ad d-akregh anect umi zemregh d akud akken ad d-rregh ghef tuttriwin-nnes. Ssarmegh lemmer stufagh ugar deg tallit-nni akken ad d-rregh ghef wakk tuttriwin-nnes negh ad as-d-ssuqqlegh iseghz'anen (logiciels) s lekmal-nsen. Maca lligh ttwad'd'fegh. Neqqim kan d imeddukal seg lbe3d. D acu kan, mi d-ufigh s tin n zzher', tighersi ay d-yeqqers fell-i ama d netta ama d tagrawt-nni n yimeqqrsa n uqemmuc yellan deg Facebook, xel3egh. Ur ddjin attihi, ur ddjin alaqeb, ur ddjin rregmat yernu yella ula d yiwen seg-sen iger-d tighri akken ad iyi-rkin, ad yi-nghen wagdudi (en public). Xel3egh, wehmegh, dehcegh mi walagh anect-a akk n tussd'a ay d-yenghel ama d netta, ama d ayt uqemmuc ameqran... maca aya, deg tidet nennum nettwali-t sghur ayt umussu amz'erbed'd'u amed'd'arfu. Lh'as'ul ur as-ssurifegh ara i lebda, ma d igujilen-nni n r'r'ay nid'en cfigh ghef yismawen-nsen yiwen yiwen. Z'righ dakken kra seg-sen azekka ad ttun. Kra seg-sen ttemliligh-ten-id, ssnegh-ten, ssnen-iyi. Azekka ad ttun yernu ad d-mmegh ad sellmen fell-i. Werdjin deg tmeddurt-inu ur as-ssusfegh deg wudem i yiwen. Ass-nni ad z'ren nnif n Uqbayli, nnif n Uzzayri. Nekk ur ttbeddilegh ara. D argaz-nni n yid'elli ay d-mazalass-a, ara yeqqimen azekka. Tanemmirt a aytmaten.

Nnan-d dakken xd'an tasertit? Tamsalt-a n tekbabt d nettat ara d-yefken anza (ttbut) dakken akka ay yella lh'al. Leqbayel (aydeg ttekkagh ula d nekk) ur llin d akabar asertan wala d amussu asertan. Ula d yiwen ur iwekkel amussu-a akken ad yessiwel s yisem n wakk Leqbayel. D wid kan ay yettekkan deg-s ay la yessawalen s yisem-nnes sakkin bghan ad ddjen medden ad ghilen dakken d amussu-nsen ay d Leqbayel akken ma llan yernu d nitni ay d agensas (represeantant) ayiwnan yernu uzrif n wakk Leqbayel. Z'ran dakken amur ameqran seg Leqbayel ur ddin ara yid-sen. Ihi s waya, ma ste3r'ifen s tidet yessefk ad qadren iman-nsen. Ad h'esben amussu-nsen d yiwen seg gar at'as n yimussa ed yikabaren nid'en ay yellan deg Tmurt n Leqbayel. Am wakken akabar anazi ur yessefk ara ad yerr izamulen n ukabar d nitni ay d izamulen n tmurt tameqrant n Lalman, ula d taqbaylit ed yidles-nnes aqbur, anesbaghur, akked tedghert-nnes (elite) tadelsant ur yessefk ara ad rsen deg leqfes' n umussu-a asertan.

Tin yernan gher-s, Tatoeba d amghiwan n talwit ed umqader gar medden. Gjef waya, ur yessefk ara ad d-nessiwel ghef umcengu akken ay d-yenna yiwen sufella-a. Lemmer dani, ur nelli ara da akken yal yiwen seg-negh ad yili d acengu i wayed'. Ur nelli ara da akken ad nemcengu la gar-anegh wala ed wiyad'. Ghef waya, ma d tidet ayt umussu-a ay yellan deg Tatoeba xd'an tasertit, ihi a win yufan, ad ssinfen i usseqdec n wawalen iqesh'anen am "acengu".

Aql-agh da akken ad nmahel ghef tutlayin, ihi iyyat ad d-nessken s tidet dakke ulac tasertit da, dgha ghef waya, yessefk ad nessuter ad tettwakkes tekbabt-a ur yellin ara d takbabt tuns'ibt negh tadelsant negh tamezruyant n Tmurt n Leqbayel, wanag d takbabt ay yefren yiwen n umussu asertan ad tili nnes yernu yebgha-tt negh yettargu kra n wass ad tili d tin n temnad't. Iban dakken maci akk Leqbayel ddan ed umussu-a, maci akk Leqbayel ttamnen s yiswiyen n imussu-a yernu amussu-a, ula ma yiwen ur yezmir ad as-yekkes ad yargu ayen ay as-yehwan, ur yes3i ar azref ad ih'ettem akk Leqbayel as t-d'efren. A win yufan, imaslad'en n umussu-a ad amnen kan s tirga-nsen i yiman-nsen. Ur yessefk, ur zmiren ad h'ettmen wiyad' ad amnen s tirga-a.

Trang,

Thanks for your clarification. I will give cueyayotl everything he needs to understand the grave issue of this problematic flag and see how it could be changed to something else. I am also very happy that two contributors of the Kabyle team have confirmed that the flag is problematic.

Once again, I admire the way Tatoeba is highly organized and how open-minded, receptive and comprehensive its team is.

Glad that you share my view concerning this.

Belkacem77

Re racist detox...

You still call me racist? This is laughable. You have been racist to me, mind you (the fact tjat I was born in Algiers poses a "grave problem", ho-ho-ho) and you still pretend to be nice. However I have never been racist to you.

We obviously need a matrix dialect and since Kabule has a massive amount of literary and scientific production it could easily play this role. You could hardly meet a non Kabyle Amazigh activist who doesnt know Kabyle. There are currently dozens of Kabyle teachers teaching Amazigh to kids in public schools outside of Kabylie and by doing this they are preparing thousands of young algerian kids who could become potential readers of content published in Amazigh and of course if the basis of the material is Kabyle they would obviously understand it. The linguistic landscape will significantly change in the next few years and Tatoeba's Amazigh corpus would hopefully be a primary resource then. Amazigh already has more than 100K sentences. We will continuevwhat we stared in 2012 and reach much much more than that.

The difference between the approach of those who want to standardize the Amazigh Kabyle dialect internall and those who want a moderate and dialectal convergence like me: The first approach generalizes tje most common lexical and grammatocal elementz and common refers here to the elements used by the majority or common to a vast area in Kabulie. The second approach prefers to generalize lexical and grammatocal elements that are common to Kabyle and other dialects wothout necessarily being used bu the majoritu of speakers in Kabulie. I think that this approach is tje best fod me because I want dialectal convergence. And i think its achievable.

Djafmess

Thanks for your prompt reply. I understand your frustration but I didnt think that you would make such a sharp change in hmuour thinking. I enjoyed discissing linguistics with you on Facebook and I saved tons of texts written by you back in the old good days. I still enjoy discussing linguistics with you even if we rarely talk now. I know that things arent easy with Amazigh standardization but things arent impossible either. People are doing things and you know that nobody has a monopoly over a language. It belongs to us all and we all have the right to contribute to it and suggest ways to modernize it. A couple of months ago M A Haddadou suggested that we use Kabyle as the basis of a standard Amazigh language and with this dialect's massive literary and scientific production, its very likely that this coild be the case. This is one of the main reasons why I use the term Amazigh language (in addition to the factual mutual intelligibility between northern dialects from southern tunisia to northern morocco).

Sorry for the typos. Im messaging you from a phone.